47 elements? I'm interested in where this information came from.
In my studies (Trad Witchcraft and BTWicca) we only have 4, or 5 if you include Spirit.
The 4 elements create all others, such as ice, lightening, plants, wood, etc. So why make it more complicated, and name each one? Why not categorize them into the 4 elements?
There are different elements to everyone. No one is right or wrong in their thinking. Some chose to see water in all it's forms as one element and others chose to see water as different elements in it's different forms. The same with fire, air, earth, and spirit.
The Chinese have five traditional elements; wood, metal, earth, fire, and water.
The Japanese have five also but they are; earth, fire, wind, water, and the void (meaning sky or heaven; things beyond everyday experiences)
To some Hindus there are 25 or 36 Tattva, this is an element or aspect of reality.
In Buddhism there are four basic elements to understand suffering and they are; earth, fire, water, and fire. Then there are two more to tie everything together and they are; space and consciousness.
In Greece it was earth, air, water, fire, and aether (meaning the upper sky, space, heaven.
These are all different philosophies and new philosophies have been coming out since the beginning of the Awakening. To understand the new ones you must think outside yourself and look at how others make connections. Staying to much in your own head leads to a world of many ones. Stepping out a leads to a world of one.
Again, I would ask for sources. I'm sorry, but I don't take "those are the youngest forms" as a reply. I've been studying for over 2 decades, and not once have I come across (or been taught) about 47 elements--it seems more of a fantasy based ideal.
And I disagree with your assertion about the Greeks having 5 elements. I am a Hellenic Hard Polytheist and semi-recon. While the Ancient Greeks DID INDEED have some ideals about the Elements, it was not the same as neo-Pagans today. Here is a good article about Hellenic ideals of the Elements: http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/RE.html
Being interested in Alchemy, Greek philosophers looked at Earth, Air, Fire and Water. Aether was NOT considered an "element" as neo-pagans would consider "Spirit".
Aether was one of the Protogenoi (or Primeval Gods). If you are to include Him, you would have to add in:
-Khaos=Void
-Phanes=Generation) or
-Himeros=Procreation
-Phusis=Nature)
-Thesis=Creation
-Erebos=Mists of Darkness
-Thalassa=Sea-surface
-Hemera=Day
-Nyx=Night
-Ananke=Inevitability
-Khronos=Time
-Eros=Love
-Gaia=Earth
-The Ourea=Mountains
-The Nesoi=Islands
-Ouranos/Uranus=Heaven
-Tethys=Fresh Water
-Okeanos=Ocean
-Hydros=Water
-Pontos=the Seas
-Tartaros=the great stormy Hellpit
Each Protogenoi was a God, as well as an aspect of the world (time, water, mountains, etc). These were NOT considered the same as the basic Elements that Greeks looked at in a alchemical way.
I would also not classify the Tattvas as "elements" in the meaning of physical elements (Earth, Air, Fire and Water). Tattva is a Sanskrit word that literally means "Principle", "reality" or "truth". That means that Tattvas are more like "ideals" than physical things such as plants or wind.
A tattva is an element or aspect of reality conceived as an aspect of Deity. The number of tattvas varies depending on the philosophical school, together they are thought to form the basis of all our experience. The Samkhya philosophy uses a system of 25 tattvas, while Shaivism recognises 36 tattvas.
While Tattvas BEGIN with the elements Earth, Air, Fire and Water, they also include the senses, acts, and human emotions and abilities. Again, I would not include these as Elements, as the philosophy itself is not compatible with modern Neo-Pagan ideals of the Elements.
Not all here are Neo-pagan. This site is for all types of magical practitioners. Elements are different for each person and this thread is not about one particular type of element.
Aether was not only a name for a god but also part of the five Aristotelian Elements. (This would be the philosophy of Aristotle who was a Greek philosopher.)
Thank you for clarifying the 5 elements to me. The Aristolian Elements are actually a Middle Ages ideal that came from his writings, and was not something Aristotle himself was responsible for: http://web.lemoyne.edu/~giunta/EA/ARISTOTLEann.HTML
I know not everyone here is Neo-Pagan BUT what I have read through these forums is very much based on neo-Pagan writings. So I was using that as an example (particularly the idea of working with the Elements of nature).
But again, I ask the question of where the idea of 47 Elements came from. That is the title of your thread, and you asked if anyone knew all of them, and I am curious where the idea of 47 elements came from, but you have not answered that. Instead you diverted to other Religions' ideals of Elements (some of which are not truly Elementals). So again, I ask, where does the idea of 47 Elements come from?
I am not sure who you are directing your questions to in your last post Aelwyn. If you read the thread you see that Sir Kalel is the one who asked about 47 elements so where he came up with the number I do not know and he will have to answer that question for you.
My thoughts on this topic comes from the information I have gathered through studying different religions, philosophies, and science. I believe that there are universal elements and what one considers to be an element is an element to that person. Hence the list and the idea for others to add to it as they see fit.
I see where you are coming from and your need for sources. I can not direct you to any other than the different types of elements. Weather you see only four or five or many is your choice.
Thank you for the link it was informative, however Aristotle's philosophy does contain his thoughts and ideas of the possibility of a fifth element, aether or ether. How you interpret the word element will lead you to pull information out to support it or not. It is too bad he is not here to give us his thoughts on it now. To clarify his original thoughts.
KTS: Sorry for not directing my responses, I'm on painkillers and antibiotics for an infection, and my brain isn't fully working, so I didn't even think to type who my responses are to. As for Aristotle, I would love to know which of his writings contain that information, as I would like to go over them again and perhaps gain more insight. It has been many years (geez....more than a decade! Man, I'm getting old) since I read his writings, and my memory isn't what it once was, so perhaps I've merely forgotten that part of his writings.
I know in the Middle Ages many people would refer to Greek philosophers, and older Grimoires and writings, trying to perform Alchemy and magic. The people in that period often misinterpreted things, or would write their own take on items (these are the people who would have portraits painted of what they WANTED to look like, as opposed to what they DID look like, afterall).
So again, my apologies for not being specific in my replies. I understand your point of different Religions/Paths/Philosophies holding different Elements (depending on how one wishes to interpret the word "element").
