Hmm, he or she is gone, I wonder why. Couldn't be because people who themselves have no proof of their own knowledge, experience, understanding, are demanding such from them. No, couldn't be that.
Too often on this site people demand personal information from others, when in truth they are not entitled to it. It is this sense of entitlement, without exposing yourself to the same scurtiny, that bothers people. I don't know you, why would I give you "any" personal information about myself? This is of course common sense, and everyone knows this, however some people use this reticence to try and cast others in a pale light.
"Oh, you don't want to share with me your background and where you learned what you learned? OH you must have something to hide, or nothing to share."
This kind of logic makes no sense really. The internet is a dangerous place, and I would be foolish to share "anything" personal I think. Besides people being amazingly good at causing people problems using the net, they can take your very real life history and twist to make it sound however they might like. Everyone knows this, hence this all being the very real case, asking people on a forum to be giving you "any" personal background is foolish.
The people on this site are not entitled to know anything about you, and you are not committing a sin by not letting them know. They may use this lack of willingness to give them what they want to try and cast you in a bad light, let them I say. Your life is your own, as is your history, do not share it with strangers on a website, Lord only knows what trouble they could cause you. Keep this in mind next time someone harmlessly asks you to give them personal information. Remember, this is the net, and they are entitled to nothing.
Asking what a person knows about a subject and asking for their personal information are two very different things.
If someone is offering to teach something, you have every right to ask what they know about the subject if the subject interests you. A prime example of why you should do this would be all the misinformed people on this site who have taken up teachers who claim to be masters of the universe at the ripe age of 14.
If a person decides they don't need to share that information, that is of course, their choice. However, if you shoot your mouth off that you can offer this, that and the other thing, what is so wrong about explaining how long you've studied, where you have gotten your information, your general belief on the subject, ect.
You are comparing apples and oranges in your reply Magus.
Should a person be entitled to know your full name, birthdate, address, and the like? No.
If you offer to teach should they be entitled to know why you feel you are qualified? Yes.
Would you attend an online class without first checking the credentials of the so called school? Or would you do a little research to make sure you aren't about to waste your time?
Actually it's not really. It's very easy to do a google search in regards to peoples experience and quickly discover a great deal more about them if they spend any amount of time online.
Also, sharing a lot of information with the type of people you see on sites like this is not a good idea, despite how innocuous you may think the information is. It's amazing how people can twist and knot up something to manipulate a person, and cast them in a poor light. You might think all you have to say in response to such questions sounds great, however you will find that others will have a different take, and can flip things around, using the seemingly harmless information you gave them about what you know to basically screw with you.
Rashnus post is a little naive in this regard.
As for saying that someone offering to teach something owes everyone an explanation of all they know, and where they learned it from, I say this. Really? What is the forum? Am I paying them, or are they getting a free service? Is this costing me anything, or am I having a favor done for me? I don't have such a great sense of entitlement that I feel people giving me something for free owe me even more. No, not at all. Also this takes you back to the problem of people being able to mess with and manipulate you the more they know about you. The people that ask are not giving the same to you, hence the balance of power shifts drastically, again allowing someone to screw with you even more if they wish. Given these factors, I most certainly am not going to be giving you my resume, unless you'd like to pay me some money, than that's another matter. However in truth I have found that such things count for naught. Anyone that really wants to can simply lie and make something up, seems common enough, so asking people for their background is stupid. I go by what I see, knowledge and wisdom are self evident, you will see it or you won't. If someone is having to google simple stuff, or look this or that up, well there you go. If you have knowledge you can surely tell who does not. In my experience only the most pompous with entitlement issues ask such questions, expecting "you" to give "them" "your" qualifications, to see if "you" are worthy to give "them" something for free. Absurd.
"Actually it's not really. It's very easy to do a google search in regards to peoples experience and quickly discover a great deal more about them if they spend any amount of time online."
This is assuming they are using the same handle everywhere they have gone. If they have used another for any reason, you wouldn't know about it because it would be "personal information" that you don't think should be divulged.
While you may disagree with me, don't assume I am naive simply because I have no fear of telling someone how long I have practiced or where I have studied, under who I have studied and the like. It would be very difficult to turn that information into anything more than it is and if they did...Oh well. I can always turn off my computer and continue on my study and teaching through other venues.
Naive would be allowing someone to teach you about magick of any kind, when they just became interested in magick a week ago. Without asking certain information, you wouldn't know that there's a good chance they are simply copying information from an online source and have had no practical experience in the subject.
I would expect a teacher to ask similar questions of the potential student as well since a decent teacher gets to know the person they are trying to teach. Since everyone learns differently and has a different background, it would be beneficial to both parties to give a certain level of "personal" information.
If I offer to teach someone, I want them to check into my background on the subject. Ask me how long I have studied, what I have studied, even if they can get a sample of a lesson.
It wouldn't bother me since I have nothing to hide and a logical and reasonable person checks their sources before accepting them as possibly being valid.
I've found that people who have something to hide, tend to protest the loudest when questioned.
"I've found that people who have something to hide protest the loudest."
Really, I have found the opposite to be true. Your reasoning seems to me like circular logic. I have nothing to hide yet I protest your logic and reasoning, because I simply don't agree. You over think things far too much. You are no Dr. Phil, that's for sure. Please stop trying to read and psychoanalize people, you aren't very good at it.
"It would be very difficult to turn that information into anything more than it is and if they did...Oh well. I can always turn off my computer and continue on my study and teaching through other venues."
Glad you have such a cavalier attitude about your personal information and freedom to express yourself, not all of us do. Everyone is different, and everyone has their own view of what is an acceptable level of privacy. Trust me you are naive in this regard. I've been online since 99 and I can tell you, people have a remarkable ability to turn seemingly innocuous information into something else. Your backwards logic that people who simply want their privacy have something to hide is rather absurd. I simply don't want people I chat with that are total strangers knowing things about my personal life, any things. I don't think that's unreasonable.
Like I said, if you are asking or being offered teaching online, my advice is simply to engage the person in chat, and ask questions. Seeing as there are not accredited universities of occult study out there, asking someone about their education in "magick" seems rather stupid and harry potterish to me, as does who taught them. This is not the martial arts world where such things matter, or where certain teachers, or "Sensei" are world renowned, and you garner great prestige and credibility via learning from them. The few such people who might be considered "great" in the magic world are often not so great when you take a closer look at their published work, which is usually their only claim to fame; and their educational background is usually that of an autodidact.I believe there's nothing wrong with that if they possess the requisite knowledge and understanding. Often, though not always, but often, those who are autodidacts can be the most knowledgeable, as they must do a great deal more to learn, often leading to a greater understanding. You also need to question where exactly your teacher may have gotten their knowledge from. It is also foolish to assume autodidacts have not had more mainstream teaching along the way.
You strike me as something of an occult snob rashnu, no offense. Though you feel what you demand is reasonable, you don't seem to get that there is a great sense of entitlement to your attitude.
My advice, leave people be. It's clear you personally are not looking for a teacher. Let others pick and choose who they will learn from based upon what that person knows, or does not. I certainly would not base my choices on a more mainstream "give me your resume" approach. That simply won't work in this area of study, and it may never. Your attitude is just a bit too elitist and snobbish for me.
While I was lucky enough to have some help and teaching along the way, not everyone is. I would not fault those who were not so lucky, or demand they justify themselves or their experience to me, though I would wisely want to know how much they know. That's what is most important. Good bye.
I'm unclear as to how you feel a comment that was general in tone is a direct attack or "psychoanalysis" against you. If I meant to use you as an example to my statement of those I've found who protest, I would have directly addressed you. Since I did not, I would ask that you leave your paranoia out of this thread.
You can see it however you wish to see it and call me a snob all you want.
I understand your point, though I do not agree with it, just the same as you do not agree with mine. Difference being is that I haven't gone out of my way to insult you in trying to get it across. I find this particularly interesting considering all the threads where you accuse others of picking on you.
If you want to let susceptible children fall prey to those who find magick to be a game where they can be play masters of the universe while Mommy and Daddy fail to do their job as a parent, that is your choice. I would prefer them to think twice and check their sources so we can lessen the idiocy in the occult community. Not continue it.
