actually, according to both my reading and understanding, One, Demons can be sealed in objects. Enough studying has shown me that.
Second, Though you may believe that demons and angels have wills of their own, They do not, that is why the bend towards will and courage, whether you accept it or not. It is written everywhere by the people who have done so before anyone else, those same people who wrote the rules for all this to happen. And what is written is that angels appear by prayer and ritual, While demons appear under ritual or bargain. That is something that must be researched. Now, If demons had will, why always appear in our world, angels as well. When in a celestial realm there is possibly more to be done. i have something very important to tend to so i will continue later
Darkked, do not assume that demons are created by god, simply because of readings. Books are quite biased because they come down from the hand of a man, regardless of the inspiration behind it. It seems to me that most of your "readings" come from a Christian outlook on demons, rather than any other outlook at all. There are things we could call demons in many cultures, I can't actually think of any culture right now that doesn't have a being or entitiy that is a demon, or is demonic. Look into more than one angle. ;)
Solarn, that is why I said that demons have a balance of sorts within them. Even if it is a different kind of balance (meaning an inequal one).
Alchemist, if I have no right to speak based on what I know of demons, when I have learned from people I would call ***very*** wise, then what right does a 12 year old child who seems exceptionally newbie in my eyes have to speak on it?
Plato, I agree with you in this that it would be very difficult to achieve indeed and that it would possibly kill you.
you have to remember that though i have read the bible, i have also read less biased works, text that refer more to the magical community then the christian community. So i know and have seen the other views of demons, and from what i have seen and understood, it is only this website and others over the internet that truly sees demons as things that are either good, or that are extremely powerful beings. It is actually funny as to why they are considered powerful. From what i have read from many different resources, Demons are basically like animals (this is an analogy, i do not actually think they are mechanical in anyway). When a summoner uses a demon, the can wield its power to his will, like a construction worker uses a crane, both manipulating something to its own will, but should the worker, or the summoner in this case, not understand or know what s/he is doing, then it can result in bad catastrophes. This is why they are considered "powerful".
Sweetie, that is force. Forcing something to do your will isn't proof of a lack of will. It is simply proof of force. You can't really "force" a demon to do your bidding, you have to give up something in return for their doing something for you. It is more bargaining than anything else. I have spoken to a summoner before, along with some other people. It is an exchange, in no way do you *force* the demon to do your bidding. Also, I would say something that "causes the love of men and women", "settles disputes between friends", "sinks ships", "teaches" many different subjects, and does things I'm probably forgetting, is in any way a weak being.
Also, if you look at the magical community they tend to pull over the ideas of the christian community. ^__^ Like with light and darkness.
Sorry for the multiple posts, but there is a reason why messing with a demon and then making a mistake is a bad thing. The "crane" is a living sentient being. You screw with it and push its buttons...its gonna kick you out and chase you around the construction area. :D
well, on the contrary to the whole bargain idea, which i did mention, there is the idea of force, and to force something does mean a lack of will, otherwise it would probably not want, nor need to interact with us, both demons and other negative entities. Also, there is a big connection between magick and religions such as Christianity.no one has bothered to really make that connection before. Also, one of the adept philosophies states that two opposites are one in the same, that goes for light and darkness. If you didn't already know that. Also, we were both already told not to trust what we hear from other people due to the fact that there can be opinion involved and bias involved. But besides that point, demons aren't "neutral" as much as you may think. in truth, the word demon derived from the idea of a fallen spirit, or a tormentor. True that in Catholicism and Christianity, a demon is a fallen angel who challenged God, but the idea of a demon spreads far beyond those borders, where nearly every religion has a negative entity who will normally command lesser entities who are titled many different things, one being the title demon. The positive entity, also known as an Angel, is also found in many different forms and names, always following a supreme positive entity. Now, as for neutral,technically, it is us humans that are neutral, only until we are swayed onto one side or another by the influence we receive around us. and of course their are many other forms of spirits who follow one of the three sides of morality, but that is for a different time.
also, about that last post, it could be more that once summoned, if not controlled, it can want to cause a negative impact. We are speaking about demons, and yet people seem to make them seem more like humans who actually would waste their time with anger, especially when a demon is a spiritual entity that lives in a realm where there is no idea of time, there fore, why care about wasting something that does not exist... get what I am saying?
the connection between Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Isis, Tantra, Hinduism, Buddhism,many other faiths and magic has been made before.many times before. Plato, Socrates, Pythagoras, Iambliche,Cornelius Agrippa, Emanuel Swedenborg, Paracelsus,Blavatsky;the list could go one forever of philosophers that have made this connection. this thread is a ridiculous and base discussion of fallacy and falsehoods.the smallest bit of effort put into research would be a much better endeavor that the addition of misnomer and irresponsible "theories" if even one could call them that.
actually, i have studied this topic extensively, whether it be through books that were written, MANY BOOKS, or philosophies i have heard. As for what i have said about the connection, i admit, i was wrong.
