Ethics of Magick

very well said..

i get your point kts although i won't call those beings on the higher planes who are not angels demons but thats not the point, its for the younger folks to know what they are getting into and not just run into this thing.

The problem of trying to teach the young on this site is that we old ones can only point out what NOT to do, not WHAT to do. Magic needs to be personally taught, the way I was taught. I can cast a circle because I was shown how to do it. I know that dowsing works because I was shown how to do it. I have read many books on the subject, and all seemed to contradict each other. The same with "ethics". There are basic "laws" that cannot be denied, no matter what the personal ethics may be. It is true that "one man's meat is another man's poison", but we all know that one day we will die. That is a basic law. If you jump from a 20 storey building without a parachute you will be killed; a basic law; but a 2 year old would not know it! The child has to be taught what is possible, and what is not. Even when the child is able to read, the child still needs to know fact from fiction. It is this "passing on" of knowledge that forms the "ethics" of us poor humans.The "ethics" of Germany were once that all Jews are evil. That belief is no longer part of the "ethics" of that nation. And so it goes on, Ethics change with time and knowledge.

I disagree that one has to learn how to do magic from a physical person. I have had many teachers in my life time and not all of them had physical bodies. My great grandmother died when I was only 2 and 1/2. I have memories of her and even of the family viewing. The earlier memories of my Grammy Bell were of sitting and playing together before we would have our milk and cookies. I was but a little one, a baby to many and we would play with a spirit board/Ouija board. This was just one of the magical things we did together before she passed. After her death I was not a happy child, as my mother stated to me many times. I was very close to my grandmother (my great grandmothers daughter-in-law). She taught me many things about herbs and folk lore however to this day she is a devout Christian. At the age of twelve my great grandmother stated to come to me in my dreams. Through this communication she taught me the things I needed to understand so that I could become the caster I am today. I have since then in my late teens and early twenties witnessed demonstrations of how to do different types of castings. The only thing is that I learned to do it without needed to see to in the physical. Learning witchcraft is not about what physically we pass down from generation to generation. It is about how open you mind is, how well you can rely on your own instincts, and if you can make adjustments while casting as needed.

If you have to be spoon feed information and ideas then you obviously can not rely on your own insists. I was taught to use what I was given and expand on it. A person can not make the connections for you that you need to have to cast magic on your own. You have to make that connection for yourself.

well said kts i could not have said it better, besides with the existance of the internet you can make videos that will direct people i can say that whether physical help or not the ownus is on the student, the first part of my magickal life was self taught, i did not even had access to the internet and no one to help me and i turned out fine.This will not work for everyone but with dilligence anyone can become great and the internet i think is the perfect tool to teach anyone once used effectively.

Well thanks for some information.

BTW, if the universe sets some rules for us to follow... if that's really the mechanics of the universe.. then I might as well disagree.

If the Universe gave us freewill, this universe as an entity should not feel bad if some douche disobeyed or go against the rules.

Take this quote from Buddha: "He who loves 50 people has 50 woes, he who loves no one has no woes".

Basing this quote into the universe thing: If there are for example 50 people who do not go against the rule of the universe, always expect that there will also be 50 more or less people who will definitely go against this rule...

Do you know the reason why? Because that is the so called freewill, we all have freewill, even other beings, they also have the force of Yin and Yang inside them to begin with.

If it really is the mechanics of the universe to give negative karma or some other kinds of punishments for those who go against the rule, then I would probably ridicule that mechanics, because if I were the universe as an entity for example, I will not give these beings the so called freewill in the first place or even a tiny part of freewill to save me some problems, so that they can all follow flawlessly the rule and order that I set up since the beginning of time.

The thing is it already happened, we all have freewill, so the universe as an entity or whoever it is who set these silly rules has no right to feel bad if some beings go against the rule, it's their fault for giving us freewill anyways.

Well I based these sentences on your impression of the mechanics of the universe, you and I have differing impressions when it comes to the real mechanics of the universe BTW... you know why we are different? Because we both have freewill.

I would like to know since when did the universe become mechanics? I did not know the universe had mechanical parts? This is new to me and most likely many others. As for "the rule" no where is it said it is a written one. Basically the rule is common sense and ethics in my own opinion. If one does not have common sense then one should not mess with magick or anything unknown.
If some people can't follow the basic rules and ethics of magick then maybe they should just stay away from it. If some people don't like following the rules then maybe they should look else where for something to do. I find that those that can't follow the rules are only out to cause problems for others and themselves. I guess I will not understand why some people have a hard time with being careful on what they do and how they do it. I don't think it is that hard to make sure that what you do will not take to much away from what little we have in this universe. Maybe that is just me?

As for the name calling "douche" That was totally uncalled for and rude. Try to refrain from name calling in the forums.

well i never expected this thread to be revived like this but i must comment to the user above sue, you are thinking in a very polaraized state, which in simply terms means dual. The universal law is one, this has been repeated all through out time.

unity

I AM

Circle of life.

all these terms teach us about leaving the dualistic thinking of the mind and meld with the heart, yes thinking with the heart! this sounds lofty to anyone who does not understand what i am talking about but sadly you can no longer function with left brain logical dominated thinking cause the cause that is crumbling right before you eyes.

Where is my proof? allot of you always ask for proof and when you get it, you scoff. Well sadly to say you have to be the one to open your eyes if you refuse to see you will be blind, simple as that. As i made my reference , energy/magick is the home of the universe and when you enter into someone's home you are to respect the laws of that household, if you cannot then leave and have nothing to do with it.

@SueLearning
Oh, perhaps I chose the wrong word, I'm referring to the ''mechanics'' based on my own understanding of that word which is the ''rules'' of some sort or as to ''how things work'', and I do not restrict my own definition of it to physical objects or beings, since mechanics ''is the branch of physics concerned with the behavior of physical bodies when subjected to forces or displacements, and the subsequent effects of the bodies on their environment...'' so I think like that when it regards to energies of some sort or non physical objects too.

Anyway regarding ethics and rules, well I still have it and do my best to follow it, for example when it comes to the areas of magick, I study things, collect all of the data including the ethics and rules of different religions or organizations of some sort and then I can divert them all to fit in a certain situation, understanding them and breaking or violating them if needed... as a Chaos Magician would do in my perspective, since Chaotes are the ones who search and also do something that works best for them in a certain situation.

Besides, common sense is not ''common'' if it's not common to all, like the common sense of for example Coven A, Coven A's Common Sense is not applicable or common to the common sense of Coven B... assuming they have differing philosophies and rules that is.

If for example regarding the rules, yes, in my opinion the rules of this universe differ from person to person, especially it also differs from people with different religions and views in life, I'm a person who views things as having limits, even these very rules have their limits on their own, and in my perspective, one of the reasons limits exist is for them to be surpassed, kinda like Hacking a Computer Network of some sort, hacking is ''breaking things to make things better'' BTW.

And besides, I won't break a rule without having a valid reason, I still have my respect, if that is how the universe really works, I only do what I think works best for me in a certain situation, and if that rule gets in my way and if my resolve and determination is strong enough, I will not hesitate to violate it, no matter the cost, since for me, the methods doesn't matter because they are merely the means to accomplish something, for me, the results are everything.

But I still respect other people's philosophies and ethics and are always open to them, this time I'm merely sharing mine.

But as a human being, I still pay attention to these rules and always careful to abide by them whenever I can, for I don't do things without a clear reason and purpose, I still have my ''Limits'' of disregarding the methods and concentrating on the results... like I've said before, I do anything that works best for me in a certain situation.

As for the name calling, I apologize for that, I was in a slightly bad mood during that day and decided to surf the net for some past time, but some stuff that made me upset around this house made me lose my Mushin state of mind so my words got out of control and my perspective of reality became distorted and lost my cool.

@pureindigo
Well thinking in a polarized way for me works best in the environment I live in, perhaps it's already a human nature to live and use whatever works best for them and to where they are comfortable with.

If you ask me the famous question" Is the glass half full or half empty?'' I will answer ''Both''.

Anyway, the ''thinking with the heart''thought sounds nice, as a Chaos Magician who does things whatever he thinks best for a certain situation, this is a nice addition, in some situations, I still have the ability to leave my polarized way of thinking and think with the heart like you've said, and I only do that if I see it fits in a certain situation I'm in, haha, well it makes my life comfortable, and I do my best to prevent being restricted by only one rule or something like that, and divert all of the things I learned and use what works best for me in a certain situation.

Regarding the ''left brain logical dominated thinking'', my Philosophy is also a mixture of Taoism and Zen, especially the Yin and Yang, so I try to balance my left and right brain thinking dominations, as I said before: according to what works best for me to a certain situation I'm in.

So to sum it up, I merely rely on my wisdom regarding things, and decide what to do in a certain situation using my wisdom and my ways of doing things that I see fit in that certain situation.

=====
Well I miss discussions like these, so this is kind of nostalgic for me.

Well, sorry if I seem to be contradicting myself every now and then, maybe that's what I get into having my mindset to think in a polarized way... to see things in the "Silver Lining".